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The action plan from the Biden administration for the Infrastructure Bill seeks to ensure projects across the nation get done on time and on budget. They’ve already hired 2,500 people to help state, local and tribal governments. But the plan has a 10-year horizon. And that could spell trouble. The Federal Drive with Tom Temin   gets analysis from Professor Bob Tobias of American University.

Interview transcript:

Tom Temin: And Bob, this is not your usual thing to comment on, a managerial type of centered topic. But you’ve watched these things for so many years. Tenyears is a long time to sustain anything, isn’t it?

Bob Tobias: Ten years is a tremendously long time. I mean, when you think about it, you might have a turnover of four or five political appointees over this next 10-year horizon, you could have up to three presidents, and political appointees coming and going.

Tom Temin: Plus different parties. So entirely philosophies.

Bob Tobias: So the idea of sustaining something over a 10.year period, and keep it on time, on task and on budget is a huge challenge.

Tom Temin: Well, infrastructure is so different from say something like Social Security, which is an old program that has been just institutionalized. And it has a life of its own. It’s got a big bureaucracy that operates it. And it has a board of governors that is generally out of the political realm. And so it operates year after year, decade after decade. That’s different from this, because there wasn’t all of that much bipartisan support, even though it’s called the bipartisan infrastructure bill. And so it has a different quality, because it’s not really a government program. It’s a government spending program for states and localities to decide what they need it for. And that’s a hard thing to keep going.

Bob Tobias: Well, one of the things that I think that is going to keep it going is the money is already appropriated. This is critically important because infrastructure projects are not one-year projects, and they need an extended time period for planning and spending and implementation. So the money is appropriated. So I believe the fact that the pot of money is already out there, the state governments, local governments, tribal governments are going to keep saying, “I want to spend this money, I want you to give it to me in grants and so forth,” which requires the government to maintain a focus on the on time, on task and on budget challenge inherent in every single infrastructure project.

Tom Temin: Because the federal government has always been a big contributor to local infrastructure projects, roads, the “Big Dig” in Boston was largely federal money and so on, it just goes back to time immemorial. So what’s different this time around? Because that was just annually, the grants were given, the projects were submitted. So this is just a blow up of that. So what do you think is the fundamental difference that makes this so challenging?

Bob Tobias: Well, I think the size. It’s a trillion dollars, that’s a lot of money. In anybody’s mind, a trillion dollars is a lot of money. And I think the Biden – Harris administration recognizes the challenge with this action plan, that they have prepared to try to coordinate federal departments so that they’re not speaking at cross purposes, and have these agencies proactively address the historical problems associated with infrastructure problems. Now, before $1 is spent, so I think that they recognize the issue and are attempting to address it. So for example, the Interior Department, the National Park Service, is working on a project management manual to make sure that its infrastructure projects are managed by consistent principles that represent best practices, as opposed to trying to fix non-best practices after they occur. And to ensure on task the Transportation Department is going to help recipients of federal funds to deliver their transportation projects more efficiently. And to ensure on budget, for example, the Interior Department created simplified protocols to use pre-approved contract language that’s going to save time and money. So they’re really thinking about how to provide a uniform approach to applying for and then spending the money.

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Tom Temin: We’re speaking with Bob Tobias, professor in the Key Executive Leadership Program at American University. But just to play devil’s advocate, it’s the federal government in some form or another, that is often the impediment to getting projects done in the first place. Because the statutes and the regulations say just from the EPA alone, can tie up a project to widen the road for 10 years.

Bob Tobias: Well, that’s true, and that too has to be addressed. asked. And as I say, it’s a very high hill to climb, and historically has not been climbed. But I think the enormity of the funds is going to keep the press and the public and the local governments sufficiently focused, that this money has a real chance of being spent better than in the past.

Tom Temin: And I’m going to take a page from your own playbook, and say, This is really a case where you need a standing career set of people to operate this whole apparatus, so that it is not subject to the political whims of parties coming and going, political appointees coming and going. But if you really want to build bridges, roads, pipelines, better, whatever it might be, needed water systems, that there is continuity, and you get that through the Civil Service. And not through the comings and goings of parties.

Bob Tobias: That is so true. Because if you’re really doing public policy implementation and doing it, right, you’re learning along the way. And so if you make a mistake, you can correct it quickly. And it’s part then of the future process. But if you have a constant churn, anything learned, is going to be quickly forgotten. And you’ll keep making the same mistake over and over again.

Tom Temin: So this management plan or this agenda, then how do you take something that is a document of an administration, in this case, the Biden – Harris administration, and suppose it’s Republican president XYZ, in a couple of years, that’s where things can kind of get hung up. Because the practice has become now one party comes in, they simply shred every executive order, every policy from the prior one, regardless of how sound it might have been?

Bob Tobias: Well, true. But the policy of delivering on time, on task and on budget would presumably, and hopefully be something that both parties could support. Because we’re not talking about whether we should build roads, that decision has already been made in the statute. So the question is how effectively we build the roads, which should be something all can agree on.

Tom Temin: And roads may not be the best example because roads tend to be some of the more controversial things, replacing a water system, fixing a bridge that fell down. I think that came up the other day, the President was touting the bill in relation to a bridge in Pennsylvania, which was actually under repair, but before the infrastructure bill, but we got the point. Where as something like a pipeline, or cutting new territory through new woods, and so forth, those are the ones where you get the controversy.

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Bob Tobias: Well, I mean, there are 10 areas of focus, as you suggest, and they include no more lead pipes, upgrading airports and ports, investment in environmental remediation, upgrading power, infrastructure, and so forth. So all of these infrastructure efforts, again, have been enacted into statute and a pot of money created. So there could be fights over some of these projects. But my hope is that the on time, on task and on budget will be the focus of attention from now until these projects get completed.

Tom Temin: Bob Tobias is a professor in the Key Executive Leadership Program at American University.

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