Creating more diversity in the lower ranks of federal management

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Organizations of all sizes including federal agencies have been rethinking their approaches to ensuring all employees have equal chances for advancement. The experience of Hispanics in the federal government has been one of greater representation at the lower ranks than in managerial ranks. A former Agriculture Department chief of staff and deputy undersecretary, now with the National Recreation and Parks Association, Elvis Cordova joined the Federal Drive with Tom Temin to tell his story.

Interview Transcript

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Tom Temin: Mr. Cordova Good to have you on.

Elvis Cordova: Thank you very much, Tom. It’s a pleasure.

Tom Temin: Now, before becoming an appointee in the Obama administration, you were in the civil service. Tell us a little bit of your own history?

Elvis Cordova: Yes, absolutely. I came into federal service right after completing my graduate studies, through a fellowship program, the Presidential Management Fellows Program, which allowed me to enter government and get an experience for what that work would be like. It pretty much put me at the mid-level of government. So I appreciated that and being able to get a flavor for what type of work was being done there. I stayed in government for about 17 years in different roles at the Farm Credit Administration. Through the fellowship program, you had a rotation opportunity, which I did at the Department of Energy.

Tom Temin: And you, I guess, wanted to rise through the ranks, because you felt you had the education and the ability to become a senior manager.

Elvis Cordova: You know, I think that young, Hispanics, young professionals of color are really eager to make a contribution, they’ve been fortunate enough to be able to prepare themselves through their education. And so really, they want to make an impact. And sometimes you find — and this is in any bureaucracy — that that can be a slow process. And so I appreciated the opportunity to learn how the federal government functions and do some substantive work, but I really wasn’t getting that broader experience that I wanted in those leadership roles. Of course, there’s a queue for those leadership roles. There was a lot of people in line ahead of me. So really, when I found the opportunity to leapfrog, I guess you could say, into a political position, I really took that opportunity because I wanted to have a seat at the table, I wanted to make sure that my perspective was being considered in the decision making and everything I had studied for was really being put into use.

Tom Temin: Now those you say that are in the ranks that are kind of in line for promotion, do you feel that as Hispanic that you were at some disadvantage? Versus say, regular white majority?

Elvis Cordova: To some extent I’d say yes, in that the support systems weren’t quite always there. And I feel like that’s slowly changing, but that really needs to ramp up in terms of having folks that, number one, are going to recognize you and your experience, meaning both the experience of preparing yourself, the experience of where you come from, and the experience that you’ve been able to attain in government. I think that’s an important thing to recognize. And so I think that like-minded folks who have that similar background will recognize and will want that perspective in the decision making process. And so what I found was when those support systems don’t exist, that type of mentorship, a type of resource group, to really be able to highlight who you are, what your capabilities are, it’s hard for even managers to know where to begin. So it’s a little bit of a systems wide deficiency that there is no direct line to be able to recognize those folks,  no other communities have been able to establish it for themselves, and so they can get recognized quicker before the Hispanic community, something that we needed to work on and something that we just have to work harder at.

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Tom Temin: Yes, because I’ve heard from some black people that became senior executives or rose to the general officer ranks in the military said that one of the key factors was there were people that reached down to mentor them and recognize them. In some cases of their race and some people, in some cases, of the white race, but that saw this potential in them. But it sounds like that’s not quite a frequent enough phenomenon.

Elvis Cordova: At least when I was going through the Federal experience that wasn’t quite there. Sometimes I found that maybe I was the only Hispanic in the room. And so my perspective wasn’t always fully grasped, because the experience and I think the perspectives and the points of view were drastically different than my own. So I found that I had to do a lot of explaining to folks of what that experience meant, what it was like, and there were folks who were receptive. I just think it was the exposure of it that really helped. And when that exposure isn’t there, the dots don’t connect as quickly, and it just made it all the more hard for folks like myself to be able to be recognized for what we were bringing to the table.

Tom Temin: We’re speaking with Elvis Cordova He is the vice president of public policy and advocacy at the National Recreation and Parks Association. So what could the government do? What could federal managers now in positions of leadership, that can have control over people’s ascension and their careers, what should they do differently to make sure that everyone gets a good, equal treatment?

Elvis Cordova: I think that given everything that we’ve been seeing lately in society, with the whole social unrest, and really shedding a light on those disparities, I think that unconscious bias training is one of the most important things we can all do. You know, I’ve even gone through it myself, because nobody’s immune to it. We all have our set biases that we may not even know about. And so I think that getting the correct training to see how that’s subconsciously affecting our decisions is really important because once we begin to break that down, we begin to see that we begin to ask the right questions, and we begin to see that what we think we’re doing to help may sometimes not be fully effective, may not be what is needed to really address the problem. And we need to realize how we can be in tune with the talents, with the perspectives, and with the needs of other communities and other cultures that can bring that richness to the experience, that can allow us to better serve the American people, because we’re understanding where they come from and how they perceive the situation to be. And so those policies will be better reflective of that particular experience and more effective in helping those particular communities, particularly when you add in a language dynamic to it. It’s a sense of trust that’s built when that happens.

Tom Temin: And outside of the experience of people of color, minorities in their own careers in government, do you feel that perspective can also help inform the way programs are designed that are deployed to the public?

Elvis Cordova: Absolutely, I think it’s again one of the really enriching experiences was that I had never grown up in a rural environment. Yet here, I was serving rural communities. And I think what was really helpful to me was being able to go out to rural communities and have those conversations and learn from farmers, learn from ranchers, learn from rural communities, what their challenges were. Sometimes, my belief is that in DC, we live in a bubble. And what looks good on paper doesn’t always get translated to what is going to be implemented on the ground or the intricacies of that are lost. We sometimes get a diluted version of that. So I think going right to the source is important. And so that applies to communities, different communities in terms of if you’re looking at communities who are refugees, and they’re escaping authoritarian governments, and they’re looking to create a life here. And then you have effective programs that can help them but they’re asking a lot of information here, you’re going to learn that they’re going to be a little bit hesitant to provide that info because of their experience where they came from. So somebody who has been through that refugee experience will understand that, and will be able to explain why this information is important, will be able to connect the dots for them. And so that’s just like a small example of how richer we can really add to the experience and the services that we provide to the different communities that we serve throughout our federal agencies.

Tom Temin: Now you’ve got a job with the National Recreation and Parks Association, which is primarily I’m assuming concerned with municipal and state government that operate Parks and Rec Commissions and departments. What’s your experience in observing them?

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Elvis Cordova: Right now, I think that during the COVID pandemic, it’s become really apparent to people of the importance of parks. They not only allow us to communicate and connect with each other, but connect with nature. And I think that given all the stress points that are in our lives, so all the unknowns, that is important: having some sort of mental well-being channel to be able to relieve that stress. And so parks have become essential places, vital to a community’s well being, as well as to the cohesion of a community. And so it’s really been important to highlight that these are important resources that are sometimes really underfunded. You look at recreation centers and what they’re doing in order to provide health education, health services, as well as nutrition health and nutrition services. These are important tasks, but I get it: There’s a lot of vital and essential duties going on across different sectors. But it’s really important to note that by tradition I think that whenever you have to cut to a budget at a city, you look at schools, libraries and parks, right? Because you consider those to some extent, at least for parks, you consider those amenities when in reality, these are critical pieces of infrastructure for a community. They’re sites of emergency responder deployment, they’re sites where people go to receive information and help. And with the school year coming up, our recreation centers are being asked to do double duty in terms of serving as educational hubs in supporting education. But yet, the funding isn’t there. So how do we, really understanding that challenge and those needs, do a better job at providing the right resources to them and saying, ‘Wait a second, even though we traditionally look to cut from these areas, is this the right way to do it this time?’ And so that’s, you know, a little bit of what we’re grappling with, what the challenges are, and how we’re trying to address them to really be able to keep on providing folks with that rich experience with that much needed help. And with that sense of ‘I have someplace to go where I can walk, relax, and just destress,’ which is going to be so important going forward in these upcoming months.

Tom Temin: Well all through high school and college I did summers for a park and rec commission. So I applaud the work you’re doing.

Elvis Cordova: Thank you very much. What we find is that for young people, it can often chart the course of their lives.

Tom Temin: Elvis Cordova is the vice president of public policy and advocacy at the National Recreation and Parks Association, former Agriculture Department chief of staff and Deputy Undersecretary. Thanks so much for joining me.

Elvis Cordova: Thank you very much, Tom. It was a pleasure to be here.

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